Jesus and Essenes image courtsey: essenespirit.com The recent interest in this group, even though they existed a century or so before Christ, ignited, because of the discovery of the
Even though they were a sect that originated from Judaisim some of their practices and way of life indicate that they had some form of contact or intimate knowledge of Jainism, Buddisim or Hinduism. The writing of historians like Pliney and Josephus have thrown more light into their life styles. The exercises that they mention, the essenes practiced, could have been Yoga. They were vegetarians. Does the fact that Kashmiri pundits consider fish vegetarian, ring a bell?
Essenes image courtsey: harmonikireland.com
Many of Christ’s teachings sound very similar to their teachings and the silence that he maintains about them, while being very critical about the other sects, Pharasies and Scribes have led people to theorise that Christ was an Essenes. Among the Gospels, gospel according to John stands out as one that is focussing more on the Spirit than any other. This is the gospel that says for the first time in the Bible that God is spirit. Some people say that he was an essene and so was John the Baptist. John is described in the Bible as the "Beloved Desciple" and maybe it is so because Jesus and John belonged to the same essenes brotherhood? Only Jesus can aswer these questions, in the mean time we humble mortals can presume, to be dissecting the infinite source of wisdom to circumscribe within the limited scope of our brains.
Essenes hypopapy image courtsey: essenes.net
It is not essential that that Jesus was an Essene, because his life and teachings were different in some salient aspects from that of the Essenes described by the aforesaid historians. Even if he was, he must have taken some of the good aspects of the Essenes teaching and given his own touch to it and that must have caught fire.
The Essenes were members of an ascetic Jewish sect of the 1st century BC and the 1st century AD. Most of them lived on the western shore of the
The similarity between a number of Essene and Christian concepts and practices (
61 comments:
a fascinating study. I was in your part of the world when I read 'Jesus lived in India'. Very interesting.
Thanks, Bibby, for visiting my site. I think it is likely that Jesus visited or studied with the Essenes since much of his life is similar. He had to spend the time between 12 and 30 somewhere, and that's as good a place as any. And, I'm grateful that the Essenes preserved valuable documents about Christianity and Judaism. In their location, it's likely that they knew about other religions if travelers visited them and shared hospitality. That's my take on Jesus as an Essene.
Christopher Moore wrote a somewhat humorous book called "Lamb - The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal", in which he proposes that Jesus did visit other countries and learned much from other religious beliefs. It is somewhat irreverent but funny and sheds a different light on how Jesus arrived at his particular interpretation of God's will. You might enjoy it.
That was really enlightening. Looking forward to the other articles in this series.
John the Baptist is not the same as John the disciple the beloved disciple... John the Baptist was the forerunner the pointer, so to speak, to Christ and was beheaded... I don't think Jesus was a member of the Essene group. I think that he lived a normal life with Mary and Joseph until his stepfather Joseph died. Then he took up his mission.
hi thank u for your interest. Like my blog for meeting people from another countries.Anyhow if u want me to translate anything ask for it...see u!
John the Baptist seems a more likely Essene than Jesus. His dress and diet are ascetic, and he lived in isolation, as they did. Jesus, on the other hand, enjoyed food and drink so much that his enemies dismissed him as a glutton and a wine-bibber (to use the language of the King James). See, for example, my own account of the wedding at Cana at http://bookserial.com/2007/04/16/jesus-christ-a-novel-chapter-3/.
John the Beloved is John the Gospel writer (at least, such is commonly supposed). I've never heard either identified with John the Baptist, who was dead before many of the events recorded in John transpired.
Interesting theory. I remember hearing/reading something about this before. I'll keep thinking and listening for more.
Bibby, thanks for stopping by my blog.
Interesting article you've shared here. Thanks!
Hi! Just read your comment and clicked on the link. Thank you for your nice words. and you know what? I'm going to India in 3 weeks... http://laudyssee.blogspot.com . This is my other blog, for my world trip...please check it out, too :)
I'm gonna read your posts now!
Hi,
thanks for coming by politics-religion.com! You have a great writing style that I enjoy.
I hope you keep coming back as we learn from each other despite this crazy world we live in :)
Thanks for visiting my blog. This article is interesting. Certainly provides points to think about. I admittedly don't know much about the group though, so I can't make a reasoned evaluation or anything.
Thanks for visiting my blog and leaving a link to your post.
I found it a thought provoking read. I hope to read it again when I have more time to digest it.
Thanks for visiting my site. I find this article rather intriguing. But i am no expert on Jesus or anything either, so i'll just be looking around for my own personal interest
Thanks for visiting my blog and very luck for your search.
visit me in:
http://fameineua.blogspot.com/
Thanks for visiting my blog and leaving a link to your post.
Interesante teoria... Prefiero el cristianismo que se practicaba en los primeros tiempos, despues de la muerte de Jesus, que la vision que sobre el tenemos hoy en dia...
PD.- My english is terrible, so for my is better to write in spanish...
Thanks for visiting my blog. In my opinion, I prefer the early christian concepts and practices... Now we have lost a lot of this concepts and I think that we need to find them.
PD.- Sorry, my english is terrible...
You always have to be careful of answering questions with questions. It makes it seem as if you're not well researched, which I don't think is the case. The above poster is correct that John the Baptist is not designated as the "beloved disciple" John.
The Essenes were highly private people, and living apart from mainstream society. A leader in the Essenes (which Jesus would have had to been if he were part) would not be advocating himself as the light of the world (John 9:5). And he certainly wouldn't advocate his followers being the light in the world when he was gone (Matt. 5:14). You could make a case for John the Baptist, but he didn't remain in the wilderness apart from the world to the degree of the Essenes. Thanks for letting me know about your blog, and I hope my comments are helpful in answering your question.
Thank u so much 4 commenting on my site. Keep visiting and commenting!
Tee
http://www.urbanconnection.blogspot.com
Many of Christ’s teachings sound very similar to their teachings and the silence that he maintains about them, while being very critical about the other sects, Pharasies and Scribes have led people to theorise that Christ was an Essenes.
It's also very possible that Jesus knew nothing about them. The silence he exhibits could indicate this; after all, how comfortable are we at speaking out, or about, groups we know nothing about.
Generally speaking, people tend to have conflicts over that which they know most about. Christians are constantly attacking other Christians about their interpretations, as just one example. Based on that, it's entirely possible that Jesus self-identified with the Pharisees more than any other group.
Additionally, the NT itself doesn't mention the Essenes. Whereas it does mention the Pharisees, Scribes and Sadduceees.
So, was Jesus an Essene? Probably not. But then again, as long as we aren't negating core Christian doctrine, it doesn't hurt to think about about it.
thanks for the link, I found the study to very interesting and look forward to future reading on the subject...
Hi Bibby.
The article is interesting.
Pope Benedict's book, JESUS OF NAZARETH, has some discussion regarding the "so-called" Essenes of Qumran (the whole book itself is most excellent reading).
On page 14, paragraph 1, Pope Benedict states, "The earnest religiosity of the Qumran writings is moving; it appears that not only John the Baptist, but possibly Jesus and his family as well, were close to the Qumran community. At any rate, there are numerous points of contact with the Christian message in the Qumran writings. It is a reasonable hypothesis that John the Baptist lived for some time in this community and received part of his religious formation from it." (Pope Benedict XVI, in his book JESUS OF NAZARETH.).
There is a general concensus among scholars that John the Baptist may very well have been an Essene. The strong points of your reflection center around that point. However, your final paragraph contains an error, as John the Baptist was killed around AD 30, and the Essene community was not destroyed until AD 70, so it is impossible that the Essenes who remained after their community's dissolution could have joined up with John the Baptist.
While John the Baptist seems to have been close to the Essenes, nonetheless the scholarly concensus, which is convincing to me, is that Jesus in fact had much more in common with the Pharisees. The Essenes, of course, were founded with the sole purpose of bloody and violent war to win back Judea by force from the Romans. If you are interested in reading their war-time plans, read their "Rule of War" scroll. This purpose is completely contradictory (1) to the purpose which Jesus stated he had, (2) to Jesus' saying that "my kingdom is not of this world," (3) to Jesus' principle of non-violence.
Not only does Jesus reject the goal and methods of the Essenes, but Jesus also explicitly endorses the Pharisees. At this time, there were three (possibly four) primary factions of Jews: Essenes, Pharisees, and Sadducees (perhaps also a party called the Zealots). They were all competing and in conflict with each other. Of these three groups, Jesus endorsed the Pharisees, saying that they had the authority of Moses and his followers should obey them (Mat 23:2). Jesus consistently criticizes the Pharisees for being hypocrites, but Jesus is much more in line with the non-violent policies of the Pharisees than with the revolutionary ideology of the Essenes.
Also, it is important to note that, while John the Baptist was a vegetarian, Jesus Christ was not a vegetarian. Luke 22:15, "epithymia epetymesa touto to pascha met' hymwn" in the Greek, where the word "pascha" is a loanword from Hebrew which means "paschal lamb": translated literally, this verse says "With desire have I desired to eat this paschal lamb with you." Mark 7:19, "[Jesus] declared all foods clean." In fact, Jesus was accused of being a glutton and a drunkard. (Luke 7:34)
Drew of the Holy Whapping
www.holywhapping.blogspot.com
John the Baptist was most likely an outcast from the Essenes. When one of their members was cast out, they were to live in the wilderness 2 years, surving on locusts and honey. It was the Qumran Scrolls that shed light on this practice and convinced many theologians that John the Baptist was one them by the references in the Gospels.
Also, Scribes were not a sect, but a position. They were like lawyers, interpreting the law. The main Jewish sects at Jesus' time were the Pharisees; the Sadducees; and the Herodians; towards the end, another sect, calling themselves the Zealots emerged.
Hi, Bibby. A very interesting and thought-provoking flow of ideas. And very well written, too.
Adora
Hi Bibby
Thanks for visiting my blog and leaving a comment. Interesting article, and some interesting comments as well.
Hi, so glad to be linked here. i will not say much but, just to ask, have any of you read any chapter from any Christian Bible? Any interpretation of it. NIV, NLT are some of the more understandable ones for this generation. To me, Christianity is about Jesus Christ, my saviour from eternal death, only by faith and my Lord. Our ability to read this blog and post is already, a blessing from God, almighty. i believe in Him and have a relationship with God, do you? For God so love the world, that He gave His own Son, to us, God in human flesh, to die for us, to save us all from death forever.
If you want to believe in Christ, say this prayer, God is listening:
Heavenly Father, i believe in you as my Lord & saviour. i repent that i am a sinner, i can only be saved from my wrongdoings by believing in You. From now on i'll read Your Bible, a gift from you. i trust in you from today onwards and whatever i do, will be for your glory. Thank you for loving me, as who i am. i will pray and talk to you when reading your words from the Bible. Let it be done in Jesus's name!
Congrats and welcome to the Christian family! Do join a Christ-believing, relative church, to worship God, together.
Thanks for posting on my blog, mr Bibby. i posted on your blog as you requested. i do hope, you show it on your blog as i can't see it.
Hi Biby! The article and the comments have been dead interesting. I'd probably take what the pope said as being a sensible line on this. He'll be well briefed, I'm sure. Personnally, I'm trying to practice the 6 Yogas of Naropa, particularly the foundation practise which is called Tummo, or inner heat. (The medieval christian expression is, I think, Incendium Amoris). Tummo is how yogis manage to live in the cold mountain ranges of India/Tibet, etc. It also should lead to becoming breathless! The bit that interests me particularly about Christ is the 40 days and nights in the desert. Leaving aside whether he was god or not, could you do this if you were an advanced yogin? I think the explanation must lie there ... in advanced meditation practices/ yoga. I'd be dead interested in any comments on this. Also, I'm a published novelist and playwright. I have a book an amusing travelogue about Nepal and India which serves as a kind of buddhist primer. It's free and it's at www.geocities.com/madyamika2000/index.html. It's called The Buddha and the Big Bad Wolf. Thank you. Hotboy
I've never given a big attention to this kind of theories. I'm not saying that they aren't important.
I just say that for my faith they aren't important. I just want to follow the great example Jesus gave to us. Love, friendship, kindness...
Good examples that could be follow for everyone, independentely, of ideals. The world would be better than now.
Kisses
Bibby, the world never knew Jesus, not to be we, who we are its children. Therefore that It in them left a mission in this world: TO TAKE ITS WORD TO ALL CREATURE, so that the world knows who is Jesus, and what it made in this world. The people are dying without knowing the truth, and others continue lost, being enslaved for the concupiscência of the meat, and the values that the world offers the man, that they are simply illusions. We are the light of the world, the salt of the land, and need to place in practical everything what we learn, so that the humanity if comes back toward the ways Mr. You he sees the last part of the parabola of the prodigal son, where the father commemorates the return of its son pra house, thinking that he was lost or until deceased. E back in ceú, the party is very bigger, when a pecador if repents and comes back toward the arms of the Father. God blesses you richly.
Hi Bibby! Thanks for visiting my blog and leaving a comment. You seem to get around a lot! While this is an interesting article, I cannot agree with its tenets, despite Pope Benedict's endorsement (which frankly I find hard to believe as it flies in the face of what the early Church Fathers teach about the life of Christ and John the Baptist). If you want to find out more about Christianity you should go to the source...the first Christian Churches in India were begun by Saint Thomas and still exist there today. In fact my first knowledge of Orthodoxy came through meeting an Indian gentleman from Madras who was working in my office. He was Orthodox. When I asked him why his name was Thomas (I thought he had changed it) he told me that not only he but his whole family for many, many generations back were Christians. That was 7 years ago and now (as you know) I am Orthodox. Come and see.
i believe entirely in all that the one, holy & Catholic Church teaches. i think it's good you've posted on so many Catholic sites but you would be best to go to a real Roman Catholic Priest or Theologian for further explanation. i would generally only post on Catholic blogs as that's where my beliefs lie..so i wouldn't as a rule post on yours. Unfortunately your tool bar is not in line with Catholic teaching on modesty..all the best...
nice and very spiritual!
are u indian? i found ur link on Izzy's blog.
The Twilight Moon
What an interesting blog entry!! You're a very thought-provoking scribe. Keep up the great work!!
P.S.--By accident, I rejected the comment you posted on my blog, rather than publishing it. Could you resend it? Thanks!!
Awesome blog, sir!!
Hi, thanks for visiting my site.
I have heard this idea proposed before, and it's interesting. While I doubt that Jesus ever went to India, we basically know nothing of His life from his 12th to 30th years, aside from His being a carpenter.
How quintessentially Jewish, to work in business with your father (or foster father, in Jesus' case). Joseph had most likely passed on by the time Jesus started His ministry, since he is never mentioned-- leading me to supsect that he was much older than Mary.
The beauty of the blog world...any thought can hold water for a moment.
I follow Jesus. I maintain he is who he said he is.
Every written Law and each word coming from the mouth of every prophet can be summed up in the words of Christ:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength; and love your neighbour as yourself."
No need for countless human religions,man-made denominations or wars of hatred.
Jesus said it all!
The Buddha, apparently, was once canonised as a Catholic saint by the name of St. Ioasaph.
http://www.christiannewage.com/StIodasaph.html
http://www.sausalitopresbyterian.com/spc/go/sermons/sermon31
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization
Thanks for the comment on my blog. I find this extremely hard to believe but it is intriguing.
Mary Anne makes the same point as I do and I have already posted a reply to this on my blog. In passing, whilst sending warm and kind greetings to you in God's own country (I visited Kerala last August/September and had a wonderful time) I would echo Jackie Parkes' concern about the lack on modesty on your banner.
hey, thanks for visiting my blog! although an interesting thought, i concur with Michael Monhollon's comment, in which he reminds us that unlike John the Baptist, Jesus was hardly an ascetic.
also, Sharecropper is right, lamb is an excellent read. it's hilarious, irreverent, and insightful.
thank you for taking the time to read my blog! i haven't had anyone that i didn't know read one as of yet (that i know of) and it's nice to know that someone has.
and so i read your blog as you asked, and am also going to give my view on it. from what i read, i don't think that jesus was an essenes. it seems that yes, they do have some similarities in their beliefs, however several other religions do, and jesus was never part of them.
and some of their beliefs go against what jesus spoke about. for example. the fact that they were opposed to marriage...that's not of God. God created man and woman, he created us to have relationships...he created us to desire and want to be part of a relationship. we are designed that way! : ) marriage is a blessing FROM GOD that he gave to us, knowing that we would want/need to have this form of relationship. he doesn't frown on it!
then you have the fact that addmission required "two to three years of preparation" as well as taking an oath of "piety, justice, and truthfulness."
Jesus...essentially God...doesn't require that you prepare yourself for him, if that were the case we'd be in deep trouble! we're human and could never get ourselves ready or worthy of God's love and blessing, however he gives it freely, asking only that we open ourselves to him and listen to him. trading our old, contaminated lives for lives pursueing and seeking after God...in this we find who we are in Christ, becoming complete and whole in him.
the fact that they had to take an oath is insane as well...all we are asked to do is ask jesus into our heart and begin to live for him. we're not perfect, we never could be perfect, and to take an oath demanding things is silly. an oath implies that you're going to do these things always and forever, and it's just not humanly possible...no matter how good your intentions are.
also it says that "transgressors were excluded from the sect" jesus doesn't cast people out. he is a God of mercy and love. our sins are forgiven and forgotten the moment we ask (sinserly) for forgiveness. yes it's true we are saposed to go then and turn away from those sins...yet we are human with out God this is impossible and even with him in our lives we choose to ignore him from time to time, in these times we are weak in the enemies eyes and can be crushed if we give in. even then though, if we are sorry and turn to God he will reach out and pull us out of the muck we've gotten ourselves into and forgive us once again! as our loving father he may disapline us, but never will he give us the boot and kick us from his embrace!
while essenes may have formed off of some group of something or other i don't think that jesus was part of them, he may have talked with members and spent time with them, but to say he was one of them, when their beliefs go again his teachings seems a bit of a stretch.
charlie
Interesting indeed...
Thanks for viewing my blog. You sure have a style of your own. Keep it up. By the way, welcome to drop by my blog when you're free. :)
I find this quite fasinating. I don't know much about religion and im Catholic lol I prefer Science because it doesnt cause war. But this article has made me want to do research and find more.
Thanks for reading my blog.
I will write something on the
issue of Essense on my blog.
please visit Leecha.blogspot.com
one or two days later.
Chard Lee
wow, thanks for the link, do keep me inform with more of these genre of post man.
thx again.
Bro. Eli Soriano of Church of God International has this to say about the topic... http://esoriano.wordpress.com/2007/06/27/was-jesus-christ-an-essene/
Hello!:)
Tanks for your visit on my Blog, and for your nice words.
I'm gonna read your posts now. soon deixarei um comentário in your interesting blog.
Até Breve.
Thanks for visiting my blog. This article is interesting. But I would have to agree with shawnngcx who left a few comments on your blog! I hope that you read that prayer and meant it! Jesus loves you and wants to be apart of your life if you let Him. If you have any other questions or thoughts, I have provided some Bible links on my BLOG. Thank you again for your nice words and comments.
Thanksfor taking the time to visit my corner, and commenting. My blog has been less than spiritual as of late, so noticing the spirit side through the mundane stuff was a treat. It has been quite awhile since I have looked at the life of Jesus outside of the Bible. I had heard of this and believe one of the books I've read on the subject mentioned this!(Now I am going to have to go digging through my library again to find it!). Thanks for bringing it to my attention again.
Namaste,
Echo
Dear Biby Cletus
Thanks so much for your feedback on my blog. Indeed, you mentioned
spirituality, which is very interesting. I always want to know more,
especially voices from "the other side of the moon"
As for the point of Essense, though I know nothing about it , but
I would like to tell you some ideas from Zhuangzi (or: Chong tzu,
which is a different spelling), who was the most important thinker
in China, and though most of Zhuangzi's works, are not works by
Zhuangzi himself, mostly from other scholars too eager to change
and mix up his ideas.
One very important aspect of Zhuangzi is: to see the world from
both internal and external points of view. Most of the time, when one
tries to see things from outside, can not reach the true meaning of
the things. To see from inside is extremely important.
Let me give you one example.
A very important and influencial lady had come to Hong Kong. Many
journalists wish to contact her, interview her.
They brought in lots of questions : Do you like Hong Kong? Where are you From?
Who is your favourite movie star? What do you likt to eat?
Which movies you like best? Do you like Hong Kong weather, , , etc.
----
And the lady turn out to be Mother Teresa.
All those questions, are questions to quest for outside meaning. not
inside meaning.
I do not meant that outside views are not important. they are
eaqually important. But, one must catch the inside meaning first.
understanding from within, is the most important way to see the
World.
As for Jesus, the important point is to understand him from inside,
not outside. Although the outside features are sometimes attractive,
but not so important.
The point of inside and outside, is one very important Chineses Way
of thinking, though it is almost forgotten nowadays.
I had posted your blog here for our readers, they will find it interesting.
Hope you every success in your writing career.
Lee Chard
(leecha.blogspot.com)
A thought provoking piece. Thanks Bibby for visiting my blog and pointing this site out to me. I think it is very hard for us "mere mortals" to comprehend spirituality with our brains, but that doesn't mean we should not try. Keep it up!
Hi Biby, thanks for your invite to comment.
I am not sure about the historical life of Jesus. However, I know of some interesting books that claim to describe his "missing years".
The "Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" by Levi H. Dowling is one and "They Walked With Jesus" and "Jesus and the Essenes" by past-life regressionist Dolores Cannon, are two others.
I have only read the first of these books and found it fascinating.
Good luck,
Sharka
Greetings Biby! Thanks for visiting my Blog LEO RUGIENS. There is not much that I could say about Jesus and the Essenes that has not already been well said by Anonymous and other commentators on your Blog. I am confident that Jesus was not an Essene, but that he respected their purity of life and committment to truth. His silence about them indicates respect more than a lack of interest.
From what we know of the historical Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus Christ), it is very unlikely that He and His family were Essene Jews. Based on their location (Nazareth and Galilee) and their occupation (carpentry), Joseph, Miriam (Mary), and their family practiced the Pharisee variety of Judaism, as were the overwhelming majority of Jesus Christ's apostles and disciples. As a matter of fact, there is a movement among modern Jews, the modern descendants of the Pharisees, to "reclaim Jesus for Pharisee Judaism." Also, please note that Saul (Paul) was a Pharisee, and that the teachings of Saul in the epistles of the New Testament draw heavily from the Hillel school of Torah Judaism. Most of Jesus Christ did was to restate (and correctly state) the meaning and intent of Torah Judaism to His followers. Rather than seeing Jesus Christ's teachings as some new thing, the gospels proclaim that He was actually restoring the old.
I send the message once, because I don't know if I made it well, so if you see it duplicate forgive me.
First of all thanks for visiting my blog.
Unfortunatly my level of English its no so good in order to leave a great comment, so the only thing I can say to you is:
Good luck with your research, and keep doing so interesting articles.
Regards.
Christ may have being in the strictest sense aligned with the religious group that believed in abraham as there father, that worshiped in the temple, this is evident with Christ and his family from childhood going to the temple to worship. he was aligned with the group of worshipers who involved high priests of the temple, the Sanhendrin
and he came out from them and formed another form of worship which was to replace the traditional worship he was born in. the new order, new way of worship.
" worshiping the father in spirit and in truth. the temple now made not with hands etc" so he may have had contact5 with the essenes but from the historical records he was not essene.
in him through him with him
Mannie
P.O. Box 35247
Lusaka
Zambia
Africa
email: manniensofwa@gmail.com
They numbered about 4,000 members. Admission required two to three years of preparation, and new candidates took an oath of piety, justice, and truthfulness.
Two to three years, it's long.
Several people have commented that Jesus could not have been an Essene, because he was probably a Pharisee.
According to the Jewish Dictionary, Essenes were a branch of Pharisees, not a separate entity.(http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=478&letter=E&search=Essenes)
I suggest reading John Allegro's The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
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